Like this, if Ben was the leader of the Others, and the Others worked for Jacob, where was the Oriental guy all this time? Was he just off camera to make me crazy?
Well, I presume Dogon was watching out for the temple, casting his protective field (or standing by to) -- making the real question: why were there Others who lived outside the Temple? It's not inconceivable that Dogon and Lennon guarded the spring alone. Dogon was drafted differently from the others, and wouldn't be surprised if he was the backup Jacob, should something happen before a candidate was chosen
Perhaps they were cast-offs. people who didn't measure up for the inner circle (though they might, in time). Maybe that's why Ben got away with leading them: Jacob simply didn't care much about them. They were unproven. He assigned Richard to keep an eye on them and let them evolve. (Widmore, too, was unproven until he screwed up -- if his exile was Jacob's will at all. That seemed iffy). It could also be the opposite: keep your enemies close -- or your bumblers under supervision at the temple, but I assume for literary sake that children are innocent/unformed and haven't made their choice about what kind of person they'd be.
Our Lostees fought them, but that doesn't mean they're the Important Players. The outcome suggests they were weak. Another possibility (given that the *Candidates* were vital to Jacob) is that they were a sort of unscripted test (risky, since *they* could and did kill candidates). Jacob might want to know what kinds of choices the Candidates might make, if cut away from their lives and the outside world.
What did any of this have to do with taking the children?
There seems to be a taboo against *Other* reproduction on the island. It wasn't a problem for Dharmans at all, as we've seen. I think the Birth Disease really only afflicted the Others (Juliet just *thought* they were Dharmans, but clearly she didn't know about the Purge. Widmore reproduced off the Island; perhaps that's the only way he could "establish his line/posterity" as men like him often like to do. (I do -- it's fun!)
Of course, Ben, unable to talk to Jacob, couldn't tell them this simple rule -- and possibly Alpert didn't know.
Given that, children may have been distraction from the Test. Progeny mold our choices and actions, but they would not be a factor once a Candidate took over the Island.
Somewhat unrelated (connected only by my speculations about on/off island): how was MiB able to kill Michael, who seemed to have some sort of protection OFF the island. Well, on one level, he didn't -- Keamy did -- but that doesn't seem explanation enough, since the explosion didn't kill Jin. I think Michael couldn't take his own life, just as Jack and Richard couldn't, but could die by other means. Some 'gift'. Ptui!
I know where I will wear this dagger then;
Cassius from bondage will deliver Cassius:
Therein, ye gods, you make the weak most strong;
Therein, ye gods, you tyrants do defeat:
Nor stony tower, nor walls of beaten brass,
Nor airless dungeon, nor strong links of iron,
Can be retentive to the strength of spirit;
But life, being weary of these worldly bars,
Never lacks power to dismiss itself.
If I know this, know all the world besides,
That part of tyranny that I do bear
I can shake off at pleasure.Is Dharma a ringer? I mean they don't seem to be on either side really. Or at least at the beginning. The name is interesting because if we have black and white, good and evil, we have Karma and Dharma, so Dharma is on the good side. But then why would Richard et.al, and Ben slaughter all of the Dharma Initiative?
I don't think 'ringer' is how I'd describe them. Widmore wasn't behind their founding -- he was still on the island. Per the mythos, which Darlton have reaffirmed, Hanso funded the DI. And the Magnus line? Well, I believe they played some role, but I'm not sure what. Perhaps they just unwittingly provided breadcrumbs for Widmore (e.g. the auction)
If Jacob didn't tolerate the DI on the Island, I don't think they'd be there. That view is modified somewhat, now that we know that Smoky and he aren't on the best of terms, but he could have made it very difficult for them, albeit at some risk of tipping his hand and arousing curiosity. He'd only need to move the Island (assuming that it hadn't been fixed until cast adrift by the Incident).
Perhaps Jacob planned to use them to bring potential candidates to the Island. We know that some DHARMA names were on the Lighthouse list (I think the cave list is suspect, due to divergences. MiB could've been guessing in the Cave; the Lighthouse seems to have been Jacob's purview -- and he wanted it destroyed before MiB got it): Pryce [Ryan], Stanhope (Harper or Goodwin), Burke (probably Juliet -- a late addition! -- but it's a common name. Heck, it could've been her husband Edmund, killed by one of Lost's many car accidents), Inman (Kelvin), Friendly (Tom), Linus (Roger or Ben) -- many more DHARMAns were on the Cave list and *may* be on unseen parts of the lighthouse list. It seems unlikely that Jacob just stumbled across them after they arrived and decided they were suitable
When DHARMA didn't work out... Rousseau (Danielle, Alex and maybe Robert) Brennan, Montand from the French expedition were on the lighthouse list, drawn by the transmission. When THEY didn't work out ... 815 crashed, and we know *it* had lots of candidates, and not, apparently, by accident. And after THAT, most or all of the Freightees were on the lighthouse list -- and they were sent by Widmore! Were it not for "the touch", I'd question if Jacob brought them to the Island or just brought people, and then sifted out the "unsuitable" using the lighthouse for background research.
I note that some of the names on the *cave* list were on the (captured) US army uniforms worn by the Others in the 1950s [Mattingly, Jones, Cunningham], but I don't recall any from the Lighthouse, only the cave list. MiB guesses? Or was the Army brought to the island, too? How long has this been going on? Perhaps Jughead didn't detonate because there were candidates alive on the Island at the time. This suggests a possible mixture of pre-planning and opportunism on Jacob's part -- perhaps he saw events that might bring people to the Island, and then directed "the right people" to be in those groups. This is a bit problematic for me, because it implies that he can see future events, so maybe he planned them all.
On the other handI'm still waiting for the promised answer about the airdrops. Well, "air drop". Despite what Ben wrote in his diary, and other elements of the mythos, the supply drops seemed to have ceased after the one we saw -- possibly because the Barracks were not longer inhabited or because The Flame was destroyed -- but that means DHARMA knew something of what was going on all these years since the Purge
And even though Widmore seems to be on the side of all out evil, and thus he was banished by the Others, is he? Is he really?
Evil? I don't know. Aligned with MiB? I'm pretty sure he is.
Jacob's bodyguards tried to dissuade Miles from joining Widmore's team (but because Miles is a Candidate, they can't *stop* him)
Widmore directs Locke to return to the Island and encourages Locke to get the band back together, as Flocke (fraudulently, via Alpert) instructed. He says he doesn't know why Locke needs to die first, but his ally Hawking says they need a body to take the place of Christian--and MiB uses Flocke as he used Christian -- but to do something FChristian couldn't (One wonders if that mysterious last meeting Christian had in Sydney before being found dead was anything like Locke's secret last meeting with Ben.)
Then what did Desmond have to do with anything? Jacob visited him didn't he? Where is Desmond?
I don't recall Jacob meeting Desmond -- how did that meeting go?
The real question to me is: how did Widmore & Hawking fool Ben? He'd never have cooperated with Widmore except to trick him, and his midnight visit left little chance that Widmore would cooperate with him. Surely Ben knew, from his many years under Widmore, of his relationship with Hawking, and surely he suspected they'd meet on the outside (The Others aren't the incurious b*t*rds that the Lostees are. They wouldn't just wake up one morning and wonder where Eloise disappeared to.) Yet, upon hearing that Locke [under Widmore's wing, no less] was in touch with Mrs. Hawking, Ben allies with her? They're dots--connect them.
Widmore also sent Desmond to Hawking with hardly a quiver (though I'm sure Desmond thought that was just his own manliness now that he truly had his woman). And the question also remains: who was Faraday? I mean originally. One could say Hawking was too upset with Widmore to give Daniel his father's name, but why not her own? Perhaps she remembered the scientist she killed was named Faraday, but that's circular. Why/how could she *initiate* a plan to deliberately give her son a name she wouldn't recognize in her own past... time loops give me such a headache.
If Desmond served no purpose but to save Penny and give Ben a good beating, it'd be enough, but I doubt that's all he'll be doing. I still have some doubts about Penny -- her mysterious presence on the other end of the Looking Glass VIDEO link (hardly what she'd use to call the Kahana -- which we know she'd been calling for days, though she professed no knowledge of any boat) remains to be explained.
Desmond is the one person who we know who can get around a time loop. He's done it before. Twice.
Is there a way for Juliet to come back? [That's not really a serious question, because I don't think she can, but I miss her. I didn't realize it for a long time, but Juliet really brought a POV to the series. Something that seems really lacking now. She had a humanity about her that now seems jumbled and scattered. Hugo is the moral center, but Juliet was a glue of sorts. Someone who kept them all together. I miss her terribly.
There are many ways. Jacob's dead, but he's been around quite a bit. So was Charlie (and Mr. Eko, though WE never saw him) and heavens, there's been enough dead Locke and Christian (was he really in LA after the O6 returned?). We don't know where Juliet is in the La X timeline, or if that will fold over to cross the current one. I personally think Juliet knew more after the (last iteration of) the Incident than the others.
"It worked."
I hope there is a way to save Claire. And where is Aaron? Is Arron really the next Jacob and everyone else is just on the Island to protect the Island Prince?
I think Claire is doomed. We gotta have the bittersweet, and Claire will join Charlie in martyrdom
Doesn't Illanna remind you of Ana Lucia? I wonder if that was a character addition to make up for the loss of the actress? I'm growing very fond of Illanna. She's not a strict follower. You know the sheep like follower. she is a warrior who can think. It's like she understands her purpose so well [something our Losties have yet to discover] that she can make independent decisions and still follow the over all plan. I think she's the strongest female character we've seen thus far. She can kill, but she can forgive when she sees true repentance.
She does, and I hope that's not just a vaguely ethnic generalizaton. I wonder if she is what Ana Lucia was meant to become, before outside events led to the writers disposing of her (and Libby) Goodwin supposedly saw something special in Ana Lucia, early on, and lobbied for her to be "allowed" to join the Other
